tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post7049101191333983222..comments2024-03-10T21:49:37.789-04:00Comments on Adventures in Mama-Land: Bamidbar 9:14 – Who is a “Geir”? And do we care?Tziviahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11828930310967808828noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-36507025088369084522011-06-01T14:07:10.049-04:002011-06-01T14:07:10.049-04:00vegna ekki:)vegna ekki:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-32182762317079936092011-04-27T16:08:01.715-04:002011-04-27T16:08:01.715-04:00There are some Messianics or Hebrew Christians wh...There are some Messianics or Hebrew Christians who believe that what God commands in the Torah still applies today, as it says "for all your generations". There are those that believe the Torah was not done away with or replaced by Yeshua/Jesus. However, they pick and choose what commandments they will keep and don't really know much about what Jewish beliefs actually are. Because the foundation of their beliefs are still from Christianity. If they really studied the Torah and what it says about the promised messiah they would realize that the Christian Jesus does not fit the Tanach's description of the messiah at all. The two religions are in reality very different. I agree that Messianic "Jews" or Hebrew Christians don't fit in mainstream Christianity either although they are still part of the Christian faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-90844398092695208952011-04-27T15:21:58.966-04:002011-04-27T15:21:58.966-04:00Thanks for the response! I struggle with humanisti...Thanks for the response! I struggle with humanistic Judiasm, too, (and if I'm being honest, I struggle with very Reform Judaism, too) so we definitely have that in common. <br /><br />It sounds like as much of a struggle for you ("which Judaism will survive") as it is for us (Joel Osteen vs. the Pope vs. those crazy funeral protesters).<br /><br />It's interesting to hear your perspectives. I think that especially protestant Christianity uses a lot of "external concepts" in a search for experiencing God. I don't see that as bad. (By the way, thanks for typing that. I didn't want to offend you by writing it out or come off as pretentious by writing G-d or Ha Shem so I managed to write that whole giant blurb without saying "God" once! I was impressed.)<br /><br />There's a lot of protestantism that is overly-apologetic, IMHO, about other religions and wants so desperately to seem inclusive that they do fail to stand on their own. It's an issue, so you're right about that.<br /><br />And, I also see how Modern Judaism has nothing to do with the basis of Christianity. Then again, what does Temple and Pre-Temple Judaism have to do with Modern Judaism? Do you think Moses would be completely confused if he showed up at a Seder? I'm fairly confident he would. I think he'd also be confused why the shabbat service was so bloodless. (Being fair, I'm pretty sure Jesus would walk out of most of our services in the first 4 minutes, too) However, without Judaism, we can't claim messiahship for Christ since it's all based on OT prophecy. I know you guys don't need us, but we need you, in a manner of speaking :)<br /><br />I could go on indefinitely, but I won't- my religious conversations tend to get lengthy since it's what I study- but thanks for the response, I love hearing other perspectives.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05893086894664836717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-68525166678192946822011-04-27T02:07:18.097-04:002011-04-27T02:07:18.097-04:00@Anonymous:
I don't "accuse" anybody...@Anonymous:<br />I don't "accuse" anybody of anything, faith-wise. We are what we are, right?<br />However, beyond saying "Jesus was a Jew," I think you should see my previous comments AND familiarize yourself with a little about modern Judaism. <br />See how Torah is lived on a daily basis by today's Jews, but understand that even the Biblical parts of it, like the festivals, are VERY different from what Jesus would have known.<br />Recreating "the holidays he kept" without drawing on "new" rabbinic traditions, ie from the last 2000 years, is going to be very difficult and not likely to be authentic.<br />I really believe people who worship Jesus, by any name, should concentrate on building a strong and vibrant church with its OWN traditions, not just trying to copy the traditions of another faith. <br />I don't think anybody wins that way.Tziviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11828930310967808828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-27190773962494133032011-04-26T22:18:07.180-04:002011-04-26T22:18:07.180-04:00@Kristina - so sorry your original post was lost, ...@Kristina - so sorry your original post was lost, but I'm glad you tried again!<br /><br />I have trouble with secular humanistic Judaism, too, if that helps (why do I doubt it does?). My grandparents weren't religious, and my father's parents were big into building today's "humanistic" or "cultural" Judaism. <br /><br />The big question there is, WHICH Jewish culture will be preserved? Jews have been part of every culture, as you point out. Should secular Jews preserve their Spanish traditions or German traditions or Russian traditions? Should they eat gefilte fish or bagels and lox or celebrate Mimouna, the Sephardic festival that follows Passover? <br /><br />I have come to believe that there IS no cultural Judaism, and that Jews of many different cultures have been bound together solely by halacha, Jewish law - basically, the primacy of Torah is the only thing Jews have in common across the ages and geographical distances.<br /><br />This is something non-Jews DO NOT share. Muslims may affirm their belief that Moses was a prophet (thanks!) and Christians may feel that the "Old Testament" makes great background reading to understand the character of God - though most use it to distort His character and contrast Him with a loving "New Testament" God. None have a committment to Jewish law - to actually DOING what the Torah says, as opposed to simply enjoying it as literature.<br /><br />(by the way, some movements of Judaism also omit this detail - those are movements I have chosen to move away from, to some extent)<br /><br />I wonder to what extent Judaism really is "the basis" of modern Christianity. Considering Jesus never ate brisket, wore a kippah, had a bar mitzvah, or spoke Hebrew, I still don't know if emulating contemporary Jewish practice in Christian homes is necessarily the best way to get in touch with Christianity's roots. Judaism has changed at least as much in the last 2000 years as Christianity has and even archaeologists and historians would be hard-pressed to recreate the Judaism he knew in his lifetime. <br /><br />(The Passover Seder itself is ancient, but much of its texts and practices are of medieval origin.)<br /><br />Is there any harm in it? Definitely for Christians, who are being misled into thinking these observances make their faith deeper or more authentic. (shouldn't it be able to stand on its own? shouldn't its rituals be rich and fulfilling enough? is there no Christian way besides a Seder to "get" the concept of a God who keeps His promises?)<br /><br />As for Jews, as a Jew who grew up accused of Christ-killing in my nice Catholic neighbourhood, I guess it's nice to have Christians as friends. But I fear it comes at the cost of "smoothing" over all our differences, either by adding Christian meanings to Jewish practices or by removing niggling particularities that legitimately divide our faiths.<br /><br />Sorry this is so long! Hope it helps answer some questions, though no doubt it raises others...Tziviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11828930310967808828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-26182432176517815042011-04-24T22:52:01.468-04:002011-04-24T22:52:01.468-04:00Delurking to comment. I tried earlier but there w...Delurking to comment. I tried earlier but there was some error, so here's basically the same thing but shorter.<br /><br />I have a few issues with your response. First, I think that more Christians observing Pesach demonstrates a shift in thinking from "you killed our Christ" to "your traditions are the basis of our faith and we honor and respect them", which I fail to see as a bad thing.<br /><br />Second, we are are a Christian Family with a Jewish Daddy. Daddy is not very observant at all, but when we got married, I decided to keep Passover for him so that our children could have a connection to their heritage from his family, and so that they could understand what we consider to be a story of foreshadowing in addition to a story of divine providence.<br /><br />As a religion major, one of my final thesis papers was on Messianic Jews, who suffer for lack of tolerance from both Christians and Jews. Christians who refute their adherence to Jewish laws and Jews who refute their acceptance of Christ.<br /><br />To me, it comes down to this. There are Spanish Jews and Russian Jews and Indonesian Muslims and Greek Christians. These people are permitted by their religious communities to keep both a religious adherence and a cultural identity. While, admittedly, the lines between culture and religion are blurred to the point of not existing in Judaism, we see in Humanistic Judaism that there is a claim to a culture and a tradition absent a faith in a particular deity. Why then would you deny people their cultural heritage in addition to their faith? <br /><br />Your comments about Christmas are a little off track, too. There is a huge difference between Christians observing Passover as a religious holiday and the mainstream media/commercialism totally hijacking a religious event and turning it secular. While there may be additional meaning for Christians in the Passover, there is also the orthodox meaning of the fulfillment of a covenant to care for a people. There are still the same questions, the same plagues, the same authority over the night. That is completely different than Jewish children being bombarded with stories on TV and images in the media about some imaginary man in a blue suit who is all about "giving and love, the true spirit of Passover". <br /><br />I can understand where you want to remain separate and unique as a part of an elect people, but in this case, I fail completely to see the harm.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05893086894664836717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21153604.post-70436963466485709362011-04-22T07:41:58.516-04:002011-04-22T07:41:58.516-04:00I find myself in quite the mess.....I love Torah b...I find myself in quite the mess.....I love Torah but I am not a Jew. Christians look at my lifestyle and accuse me of being a Jew. You might look at my lifestyle and accuse me a Christian. I do not call myself a Christian and I do not go to church on Sunday and I do not celebrate Easter or Christmas which I consider to be pagan holidays. I believe as a believer in Yeshua/Jesus that I should celebrate the holidays he kept. He was a Jew. He kept the Torah. So I do not fit in anywhere. Jews do not want me and Christians do not want me. So, my husband and I do the best we can alone. We read Torah. Every Torah cycle we put a bit more into practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com